The Haven Exchange

Toxic Masculinity - Haven Exchange #58

• Haven Exchange • Season 1 • Episode 58

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I think it is nice that we have gotten to a point in society where we can take a breather and not worry about a tiger eating us for dinner, or where our next meal will come from, or will we survive the winter... Now, we can begin to refine ourselves further like raw clay finally meeting the hands of an artist. Toxic Masculinity is but one of the many discussions tailored to cleaning up and refining society into a work of art. Tune in as we discuss the term specifically as well as exploring our own experiences navigating masculinity in society. 

What are your thoughts on Toxic Masculinity? Let us know!  
  
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Sage:

Great time

Genesis:

dark side must be swept as a coercing array with all the force of a great time. With all the strength of a raging fire, mysterious as the Dark Side Welcome to The Haven exchange podcast number 58. Be a man. Wow Disney shirt is chock full of no no's. Oh, buddy. Oh, Val. Well, this week, we are bringing you all an episode all about toxic masculinity. And I know, I know what you're thinking, what did these neanderthals know about toxic masculinity? Well, you might be surprised. So keep on listening to hear all about our take on the term and exchange our journeys navigating masculinity. But first, if you are enjoying the shenanigans each and every week, be sure to give us five stars on iTunes along with following and subscribing to the show on your favorite podcast platform and get notified when new episodes are available. And if you want to further support the show, head on over to patreon.com/haven exchange to sign up and directly support us through the many tears we have over there. All right. Be sure to hold in your emotions but not your farts. This is Haven exchange number 58 Toxic masculinity. This is the Haven exchange?

Sage:

Wow, I didn't know that worked

Genesis:

like that. Okay, figure something out.

Sage:

So my hands. My headset is plugged into my speakers. My speak must speak as external but it's turned off and it's still working.

Genesis:

Oh, maybe that's why you've always have an issues with your mic.

Sage:

No, I normally have it turned on. So whatever.

Genesis:

Whatever. It's just the two of us today. Right? You and I say no. Shit.

Sage:

Yeah.

Rick:

The resident Kojima fanboy is still here. I'm still among you all. Even though I am slowly dying. I'm good.

Genesis:

Did Kojima lengthen the distance on that order yet?

Rick:

No. No, I'm actually I have his number now. Like I talked to him every day. You know

Sage:

what? I would like for you to talk for 30 seconds without once going

Rick:

How about you eat my and then you can

Sage:

the struggle is real right now with you.

Rick:

You know, it's one of those things where for some reason, I don't mean to do it. I just do it. Like I don't have

Genesis:

to do it. No. Have those like filler sentences? Yeah, like I clearly hear what people

Rick:

say. And I will still go what was that? Yeah, I know. You're all I cannot explain it. I will hear exactly what you say. And I still

Genesis:

like your giving your brain like a second try to process Yeah, excuse me. Uh huh. Even though you heard it, but you're just buying yourself more time to process

Rick:

it. Oh, hold on. I'm not processing it that slow like alright, this is the fifth. He said this was the sixth way like I'm not doing

Genesis:

this motherfuckers working on Windows 95 upstairs

Rick:

that is funny. I like that was good. That was good like that.

Sage:

Almost Yeah, I got a funny story. You You can't make this shit up. Oh, so this happened at work today. This is hilarious for the sake of the story. I'm gonna say these people's names are Alexis, Mike and James

Genesis:

ama got it hmm.

Sage:

So James since Mike a message asking about one of our clients, Mike doesn't know so Mike sends a message to Alexa saying hey, what is this about? Alexis then immediately replies I don't know x Mike. Mike's like I'm the one asking what do you mean asked Mike they took a screenshot and sent this in the chat and I was like, what?

Genesis:

That sounds like we ever seen the videos where they put two AIS and hit him like communicate with each other. So yeah, yeah, like you're an AI No, I'm not an AI you're an AI No, I'm not an AI you're an AI

Sage:

Have you seen a video where they put to what somebody calls a Chinese restaurant on one phone and call it a different one on that phone? And then next to each other? And you listen to them argue?

Genesis:

Because they're both trying to use the other second language is an English to communicate to each other.

Sage:

One of the funniest videos ever. Yeah,

Genesis:

that's pretty hilarious. Anyways, welcome to the show everybody. The Haven exchange podcast bringing you weekly shenanigans hosted by myself Genesis. And these two schlubs Over here we got with us today

Rick:

and I am Genesis the Toxic Avenger.

Genesis:

Well, that's just not fair at all. That's not your name though. My name?

Rick:

No it is today.

Genesis:

You've never seen the Toxic Avenger. I

Rick:

have not I am not familiar with it.

Sage:

I thought he was about to say yes. I was about to be very proud of you for it.

Genesis:

Do you know what we're the Toxic Avenger comes from like that camp of movies that that little niche in the darkness of golden screen. Is it the golden the silver screen?

Rick:

No. For some reason I hear Toxic Avenger and it makes me think of the sultry guys those from the Sega Genesis game. I think it's like some green do This is covered in slime and dry like, I don't know. I have no idea what you're talking. It's

Sage:

not that far off. Really?

Genesis:

I mean, you throw a broom in there and

Sage:

got it? Yeah,

Rick:

so was this a movie first? Or was

Genesis:

it was a comic first

Sage:

class?

Rick:

Well, I mean they say everything's a cold class.

Sage:

No, no, no, no toxic Avengers a Coke Classic. It got it got so big. They had a cartoon for it.

Rick:

Yeah, heard

Genesis:

of the trauma Ville. What's the guy's name? That was in Russia.

Rick:

You said the troll mogul. Trump. Hey, that's what he said. I just repeat what he's

Sage:

troll. MK nine.

Rick:

I didn't know man. I don't know toxic could mean another dude. I don't know what toxic means in this.

Genesis:

It's like very low budget films with very interesting premises or like horror elements and see put that all together and you could see where there could be cult followings built around that. Like this isn't like Sharknado shit. This is like,

Rick:

oh god.

Sage:

I would say take Porky's meets Avengers. And you you get a Toxic Avenger movie? Yeah,

Rick:

I remember Mike used to be so unreasonably excited. Every time a new Sharknado movie would come up. He would always post something on Facebook. He would be so excited about it. I feel like this sounds like absolute trash. Why now?

Sage:

That just reminded me what I think it was shark away it's like

Rick:

oh my god. Look remember Womp womp again

Sage:

again, it's awesome you leave I'm getting along really? Well I'm again was on my cover movie list last year and it was great. Where's the poster? Is it Yeah, here it is the poster for shark Lynch. On the post it says Noah's frozen water the science and sound like what?

Genesis:

The sharks frozen in the ice underneath these snowy avalanche that come alive. I'm guessing because they thaw out.

Sage:

I've never watched it but I want to just because of that.

Genesis:

Very I can't stand those whose to be honest. I grew up on shit like Toxic Avenger. And but I just can't get into that no more. Maybe like in a group setting like, like your October weeknights? That sounds more fun, but I can't just watch it on my own.

Sage:

Do I remember, we went to go see black panther in theaters. And that Megalodon movie or whatever came out with Jason allowed his Hilden theater. I was like when the fuck is sci fi get a budget? And everybody started dying laughing because it's 100% a sci fi movie. Why are we watching this shit? Right?

Genesis:

Yeah, the technology that goes into like building effects and stuff has been made very much more accessible to a lot of people to build some of that stuff. But then if you look at movies like The Last pastor, apparently that is a loss. The last.

Sage:

The last is also a classic. Seen it and yeah, maybe watching some gyms in October do explain that

Genesis:

one to Rick. Oh,

Sage:

so a pastor. Oh, attack on a retreat by a velociraptor. And you know, if it attacks you, you turn into one. So

Rick:

it's an official law

Sage:

that just like a werewolf he turns into a velociraptor when the moon is full. The whole time he's being hunted down by a group of ninjas for no reason.

Genesis:

This is available on Amazon Prime right now. It's

Sage:

a great movie.

Genesis:

Isn't the Velociraptor that he turns into just like that costume. You see people in like fireworks stands? Isn't there like a scene that because I've only seen clips of this. Like, there's a car that's supposed to explode. And then they just put a sign in front of it that says like insert car explosion or something like that. There's actually no effect.

Sage:

I'm gonna have to go back and re watch this now. I may have missed it.

Genesis:

Oh,

Sage:

do movies like that are great. You just just turn off your brain and just enjoy the steepness of it.

Genesis:

can exist? Yeah.

Sage:

Well, speaking, train wreck. train wreck. You can't look away.

Genesis:

Sure. Yeah.

Sage:

Like the one. The one that I watch. I forgot that. Was it long again. It was Armageddon, actually, where the dude in every scene had a different fucking shirt. And I don't mean like they were it was morning, noon or night like this entire movie took place at one party. And every time they showed him he had a different fucking shirt on.

Rick:

Maybe cutting vomiting on on the shirt. It was hilarious. I peed on it.

Sage:

Because nobody acknowledged it.

Genesis:

Like this was like, filmed on different days, and I just didn't do it. Check.

Sage:

No, it was all filmed the same night. He just didn't give a shit. Like he had on a tank top one time. And then the turtle shirt and other time a jersey. I'm like, Dude, what the fuck is going on right now?

Genesis:

That's like those old parody films, you know, like hot shots or Naked Gun? They would

Rick:

do gun?

Sage:

Of course.

Genesis:

How have you seen Naked Gun?

Rick:

Naked Gun 33 in 1/3 or something like that? Like I think that was yeah, I fucking love making content. Now. Shit. But to be fair, I've only seen the third one. I don't remember anything about the other two. Well, the first two or if there's

Genesis:

surely in the first one.

Rick:

I don't remember it.

Sage:

Don't call me Shirley. thing.

Rick:

I do not remember it at all.

Genesis:

Wow, what was that guy's name? I love that guy.

Sage:

As a kid. I know his name. I'm just curious what Rick thinks his name is.

Rick:

Wade Leslie Nielsen's character.

Sage:

Officer. He's gonna say Liam Neeson?

Rick:

No, no, no, no, I That's funny. I remember the actor's name. I don't remember his name on the show, though.

Genesis:

Have you ever remember, isn't it? Yeah,

Rick:

yeah. Okay. Yeah, he was in the third one, right?

Sage:

It wasn't two of them. I thought.

Genesis:

Maybe I get them all, like blurred together. And I don't know which one was which anymore. It's been so long. But if you ever go on YouTube, look up. Lesley Nielsen interviews. You couldn't help but smile. The guy is just adorable. He's a livin. carries over and he brings like little like fart balls when he's interviewing. Especially he just keeps and everybody's just like cracking. It's just it just makes you smile. It's just

Sage:

you ever seen Dracula dad and loving it? Yes. That

Genesis:

was my favorite one.

Sage:

So many good movies. Spy heart.

Rick:

My heart. I saw that one.

Genesis:

Leslie Nielsen was King for my childhood. To

Rick:

Ernest goes to what jail? Ernest goes to,

Sage:

you can literally say This is true.

Genesis:

True man finally we got Ernest goes to the hood that would have been great man.

Rick:

What was there was a family guy skit where it was like, close to the post office and ship. Ernest goes to the grocery store

Genesis:

Oh, were they? Oh, they were ragging the same gym know what I mean? Were

Sage:

you might be honest I don't know I guess goes to the hook. I would I would actually pay to watch that.

Genesis:

Hell yeah. Or

Rick:

just goes to a maga rally endless possibilities man like come on. Smelly yeah who could they? I can't think of anybody that's even remotely like

Sage:

mph Oh mph 100 could do 100%

Genesis:

Now you know who could do it? Was Mike Rowe

Rick:

the dirty job? Yeah. He's kind of

Genesis:

Yeah, it's kinda it's more like Dr. Funny But yeah, he is hilarious Dirty Jobs is fantastic show because of his humor to

Sage:

me. Somebody's got to do it.

Rick:

I don't know if he's dead quirky dry humor though.

Genesis:

No, he's not but I don't know this is the first face I could think of

Sage:

what's the name? Jim Parsons.

Genesis:

Good work yeah, see that?

Rick:

You know who I can also see too is uh, maybe James Roday or I'm sorry James Rodriguez.

Sage:

But my question is why does Ernest have to be a man see that's that toxicity?

Genesis:

Like oh, bar.

Rick:

I like it. I like it.

Genesis:

Irma. Irma goes to our Ernesto.

Rick:

Elizabeth. I've just the names as

Genesis:

well. Nice transition there. Speaking of that, and the toxic

Sage:

night nice if you have to point it out.

Genesis:

Well, we missed the train there. But we're bringing it back. Because this is the episode of toxic masculinity. Denton do What does

Rick:

I couldn't say? I said those look dope. Those look really good.

Sage:

Let this man finish the sentence.

Genesis:

I know you're calling out things that the listeners can't see.

Rick:

You know, the honest to God truth. I thought I muted it before I said that. I definitely do that

Genesis:

to yourself out loud. Yes. Yes. Yes.

Rick:

I feel weird if I think now. Okay, go ahead. Continue. What do you say?

Genesis:

No, I want you to continue gold right there.

Rick:

Now, sometimes I will say things out loud. Because I feel weird if I think too much in my head. Like if I'm having a conversation with what's so

Sage:

come down each year.

Genesis:

Toxic masculinity. What does that mean? You guys, because to me, it feels like it's kind of a gray area term like everybody, to me, it seems like has their own definition of what that actually means.

Sage:

Me is when other testosterone fueled individuals like yourself full of it. Fill the need to give me shit for drinking a white cloth. It's fucking alcohol.

Rick:

Well, hello, hold on. Hold on. Hold on. No, no, I have to call this out. Because this is the same cocksucker that gave me shit when I was drinking Jim Beam apple. What do you mean?

Sage:

Flavored liquor is trash.

Genesis:

Yeah, that's not as toxic masculinity that says whiskey snobbery. It's whiskey.

Sage:

Flavored flavored liquor is fucking terrible. You have no reason to be drinking it.

Rick:

Hey, man, good man. I actually

Sage:

really like maybe like flavored vodka or something. But not whiskey or bourbon. No, you drink that straight.

Genesis:

But that is a good example of generally accepted meaning for toxic masculinity. Putting somebody down for something that you might consider weak, in a sense, you know, what are you doing drinking that white claw? You should be drinking beer. This beer.

Sage:

It's so I can hydrate and get drunk at the same time.

Genesis:

Do you agree with that, Rick? Or do you have some more to elaborate on what toxic masculinity means to you? Well,

Rick:

yes, I do have a little more to add to it. Because I think it depends on who you're talking to. Right when it comes to defining toxic masculinity right to me, when I think of toxic masculinity, I think is just when men have to use brute strength and aggression for things that don't know severely needed. However, you talk to some people toxic masculinity is just leaving your legs open and a seat wider than you probably need to say. It's overly sensitive in some areas, because I've literally seen people say it's toxic for a man to sit in a seat with his legs open, because he's trying to assert dominance over the female. And it's like, know that he has nuts, like, he has something that hangs in between there.

Sage:

I don't even know you.

Rick:

Like he has a set, he kind of needs to give it room to breathe. You don't want it to be squished up against your thighs. You know, that's just, that's not cool.

Genesis:

You know how they have those like fake pregnancy bellies, and you see it on like sitcoms all the time, where they make like the husband where it would if they flipped it and he gave like fake testicles to a woman, where those get your clothes and your legs and you said

Rick:

you get a lady to wear a cup. And then just put little hangers on the end of it. Let a little mediate meeting hangers just to have a walk

Genesis:

around.

Sage:

And I may get canceled for the statement, but I don't give a shit.

Genesis:

I do careful.

Sage:

Women say that we couldn't handle periods or pregnancy? And they're probably 100%. Right? I'm not gonna argue that. Yeah. But I don't think they would be able to last one second as a man in a male friend group. Because all we're doing is everything you do. That's gay. talking shit about you about you can't just be yourself like you got to have your guard up at all points in time.

Genesis:

Well, I want to clarify that that is something that I definitely want to talk about. Because what you're describing, though, is in how we grew up. I think like kids today, it's a little bit of a different experience.

Sage:

I think it is becoming a little bit more self respect, like and Pitch Perfect. After that movie came out and became such a huge hit. You started seeing all these schools having more acapella groups and more people signing up for musicals. So it became more socially acceptable. And not so you know, quote, unquote, homosexual or whatever, for a guy to be doing those type of things. They felt more comfortable, which honestly, part of me felt like I grew up in the wrong area, because fuck I wish.

Genesis:

Well, yeah, and that's something I want to talk about, like our upbringing, as far as it relates to toxic masculinity. You know, you know, as a singer, I'm sure you had to face a lot of that, or at least, let me ask you this. Did you feel pressured into displaying textbook masculine traits? That you weren't naturally like displaying? I guess,

Sage:

have you met me? Well, I was born not given a font and I'm gonna die not giving a fuck.

Genesis:

Even as a kid, you never

Sage:

even as a kid, I always did me walk around singing all the time. My friends who were my real friends understood that and just let me do it. I do. Yeah.

Rick:

Now, here's a question. I think we've talked about this before about bullying, and how we, we think it's kind of important, but it can go a little too far. Right? If we think bullying is okay, to a certain extent, do we think toxic masculinity is kind of the same regards? When you're an adult? Is it cool for your girlfriend's to ridicule you for singing or liking my little pony or, you know, whatever the case?

Sage:

Well, I think that that also still falls into the same camp of bullying, but as meaning that it's good to a certain extent, because you know, you grow up, you got to learn how to deal with it. You got to build that layer skin, you can't go up being a fucking snowflake your whole life, and then flip out and do some stupid shit that might end up hurting some people just because they were trying to make a joke. I mean, get it jokes. They hurt people, they're, I mean, they're not supposed to. They're nice, depending on who's on you know the context, but the portion of the time they're attacking somebody, you might be better to joke if you got to learn how to take that in stride, and either strike back with another joke to further embarrass that person or just walk away.

Genesis:

And I think it's kind of interesting to navigate that because when you're dealing with the friend group, it's almost like that's a separate culture and society built within the overall culture and society. So like, when you ask the question savage lease our friend group Yeah. Am I gonna roast you for like in my little pony in our friend group? Absolutely. Do I really give a shit? No. No, like, right? Or do I just feel the urge to make the joke? Yeah. Not on a random person. If I logged some guy that was wearing a My Little Pony t shirt. See only thing Don't say anything. I don't

Sage:

mean think it's a pressure to make the joke is the fact that somebody says something. And then immediately in your in your head, you recall like six years ago, he said that shit did me this?

Genesis:

Well, I mean, psychologically speaking, I mean, can we agree that there's the roasting is coming from trying to position yourself in a place of dominance and power? Or is that too deep thinking?

Sage:

I don't think it is. Especially in a friend group like ours, because I don't think that that's the case because we just talk shit about each other just to talk to you about just what we do.

Rick:

Remember, when we had a couple of years ago, there was a mixup with me where I was getting in my feelings light skinned ship. Where was it like for four or five years ago or something like that? Where I hit a point where I was just like, Dude, I love these guys. But I'm gonna take a step back, because personal shit was happening, but to also have some of my best friends just piling on and I know his jokes, but it's like, fam, I gotta step away from this shit. Because it's, it's starting to kind of get to me, so

Sage:

good. You don't sugarcoat it, it was me. But

Rick:

it was a group in general. I mean, like, it came from a place where everyone was trying to be funny. I was just dealing with my own personal shit. And I took it a little too far in terms.

Sage:

And we've had a couple of moments like that. But even then, when those moments happen, people like the joke stop, the real fracture comes through Exact people, people reach out and be like, Okay, so let's talk about this. Now hit me like that. And you know, you do the mediation shit. And then you get over it. And then two days later, your mom was I hope. It is what

Rick:

it is. Right? Because that's exactly when that happened. I mean, every body that I told about the situation reached out and was like, Hey, dude, you know, it's all love and jokes and shit, not trying to really break you down or anything like that. And that kind of let me know that. All right. I think I'm just taking it a little too

Sage:

serious. No, going off of that, if you want to talk about, okay, so we're bad, but you want to talk about I don't know if this was a real video. Or if this was stage, but you seen the video with the dude, he's playing like GTA, whatever. him and all his boys are playing. And he's like, man, that his boys like he's like, Man, I'm sad, man. He's like, Oh, everybody got concerned for a second? Like, oh, what's wrong? What's wrong? He's like, Man, my dad died did like, Oh, fuck. Sorry to hear that man. And he's like, Well, how do you die? He's like, he drowned. And then got real silent. It didn't somebody just start laughing. And you're like, what is it? Like? How old is your dad like 64? How many cake bucking swim, and they just start roasting last? For next 10 minutes. And I was like,

Genesis:

I mean, it may sound rough on the outside, but maybe that's just the way their friend groups

Rick:

work. That's how many Annemiek is where they just, there's like, you get like, 10 seconds to process what you just heard.

Genesis:

Zero boundaries, no concern.

Rick:

If that happened to me. You gotta give me more than 10 seconds. You gotta give me a couple of days. You know? Like, it was my dad. Give me a couple of days. You know, the home?

Sage:

You probably wanted to hear from me if my dad died. I need it. I need like, at least a month. Yeah,

Genesis:

yeah. processing your own feelings in that out of fear of what the friend group might say. Or

Sage:

just need to be? Yeah,

Rick:

they will be the same way with me. We're like, if if something like either of my parents, I will definitely be missing from the podcast for probably a couple episodes. Yeah, I'd be a fucking wreck, dude. For sure.

Genesis:

Yeah, and I, I mean, even what you guys are displaying right now clearly, because like one of the, one of the pillars of toxic masculinity is toxic masculine men won't are unable to share their feelings, or the pressure to put your feelings in a closet within yourself and not express those kinds of things. And I mean, Rick, you talked about, you know, the moment you had to step away, and I mean, you talked about it, you you expressed what your feelings were in that moment. And so it's a little bit different, but 10 years ago, I don't know if that same situation would have went down that way. You know, like, now we're older. I think we feel a little bit more comfortable in our bodies in ourselves and who we are as people who we are as men, but teenagers early 20s I don't know I it took me a while to break some of those masculine like traits that I thought I had to do just for whatever reason, you know, like no crying. If I got hurt playing football as a kid, and I wanted to cry, there was no way Hello is gonna let those tears come out.

Rick:

Don't you know? Oh, yeah, I actually, it was the opposite for me growing up, my mom was the one that was kind of like, Alright, let's get past it. Let's keep it moving. My dad was the one that was like, no, let it out. Like because if you if you let that chip build up, you're gonna go apeshit and kill somebody. He was like you need to let it out when it happens, you know, yeah, or within a certain time period because if you build it up, you're going to snap eventually, and it's going to be 10 times worse.

Sage:

I haven't cried 19 years.

Rick:

You know, that doesn't surprise me. That doesn't surprise me only because I feel like you are someone who probably is able to contain yourself a little better. In that regard.

Sage:

I just view it as a useless emotion.

Genesis:

Well, studies which say you're absolutely wrong and that

Sage:

I almost the closest I came to crying was recently was that when my grandmother passed on Valentine's Day last year, that was the closest I came

Rick:

to my grandmother passed last January. And I was sitting on the couch with the family got the news and dude, when I took I mean, it's not that not 19 years, but it's definitely been some years since I've cried fam. I had to get up and go to the bathroom and I'm the I'm I'm two seconds from punching everything and just not because my default reaction is to hitch it when it comes to my anger now but hit items not people

Sage:

you're doing the Tyrese baby boy. Never saw

Rick:

it so I don't know what that is. I know. We were afraid they'll rephrase it. I know what the movie is. I'm just I never saw. But yeah, just I hit a brick wall once because I was so angry. The hood. Oh, no, he got hit

Genesis:

with a brick that's twice as damn near a wall and so I was there

Rick:

with it. That's funny. Where they both from your mom?

Sage:

Your brother, my sister.

Rick:

Oh, all right. What's up? So Mike? I think we need to call DCFS I mean, they're like, wait, what? Got that is a good idea. We absolutely need to save that. That's definitely a skill. Excuse

Genesis:

me. You're a grown ass man.

Rick:

This happened in 1992. What sir?

Genesis:

Don't put those masculine traits on me. I'm hurting inside.

Rick:

On the flip side, though, can you guys name any good things about toxic masculinity? Like is that is there a positive side to it?

Genesis:

Colorado? You mean to tell me neither of you guys felt the pressures of like male hood growing up at all?

Rick:

No, no, no,

Sage:

don't. I'm a Disney kid. I grew up watching Disney and loving musicals if you think I cared.

Rick:

A peer pressure has never worked on me. At a very young age. My mom specifically was like, if they are not perfect, but you don't need to give a shit what they say. Like you don't need to harbor whatever they say to you.

Genesis:

None of my shit came from like family or upbringing. My dad like he was like this uber masculine male or anything like that. But you guys must have been just popular fucking good looking dudes because No, I was certainly not done for everything. I was never going to allow the opportunity to give somebody any other ammunition.

Sage:

But I also grew up oh, you in high school.

Genesis:

We took the same French class. In high school. He threatened me. Unless I did his homework. That's fine. I got my mind bombs.

Sage:

I got bullied. I got. I used to get in fights all the time. And then I had my first real friend. When I got to fourth grade. This dude was crazy as shit. I'm pretty sure he's either dead or in prison now. For sure. That was getting in the fight one day. A couple of days came with me. I don't know why he had it. But the dude pulled out a butcher knife. Jesus. Yeah, it was about to start stabbing.

Rick:

Now, this might be I might have mentioned this before in another episode, but I got into a fight in seventh grade. And the guy he and I were fighting in the middle of the street. And he hit me in a certain way and I didn't really like it. So we I was down the street from the house. So I went home and grabbed the ranch and I fully intended to come back and kill him. I was 100% about to murder

Sage:

this dude. Again, I don't know if that's metal toxicity or just fucking pets. To designer. Yeah,

Genesis:

they do want to talk about that too. So I'll hold it.

Rick:

As far as bullied. I was never bullied in school, or you know what I got away with. I got away with being the quiet dude. I was also related to cool people. So like my cousin was like, super popular. My sister was super popular. And then my brother a lot of yeah, a lot of people knew my brother, my brother came to the school one day to pick me up in like fifth grade. I had girls all day telling me my brother look good enough. The and that was just that was enough to not get bullied.

Sage:

Now, I just always had a smart mouth,

Genesis:

and have none of that confidence. The good looks that all came way later. And are we

Sage:

are we still waiting for that?

Rick:

Is this part of the multiverse or

Genesis:

though or what's going on? Yeah. Okay. All right.

Sage:

Walk right into it.

Genesis:

I know, sixth, like sixth grade. First day is sixth grade new school. Because that school you transitioned out of one school that at fifth grade, went to a brand new school is sixth grade. First day, starting literally walking into the school. The hallways are filled. I was finding their class is big motherfucking eighth grader stops me puts both his hands on my shoulders and fucking hacksaw Louie, straighten my face.

Sage:

Shamelessly, you must have a punchable face. I must have. I've seen people with punchable faces. Horrible. Nobody's ever disrespected me like that. Yeah,

Genesis:

that's never have that shit. And you get done like that. The one the only time I like stood up for myself was probably maybe eighth grade, eighth grade or freshman year, even. You know how like those seats, you could lean back and you had a balance on the back two legs of your chair, like most chairs, but continue. Well, now my kids got wheels.

Sage:

This is a computer chair that you insert.

Genesis:

Some kid didn't know, I think I knew him. But I didn't. I wasn't like cool with him or nothing. But he did the whole, like, fake. Like, I was gonna fall like pull it back a little bit. And everybody started laughing. And so like that embarrassment led to like, Okay, I'm a guy, I gotta do something about this, you know. And so I stood up and I fucking grabbed him by the throat. So it was a back wall and like, held them up against it. And when I was at that point, I was like, I don't know what to do now. I don't know what the next move is here. So I freaked out. I fucking hold them up was choking them out. Everybody's like, oh, the look. Yes. And then I fucking took off. I ran out the fucking

Sage:

I don't I don't know if that's a toxic masculinity or you just feeling pressure from social norms or whatnot?

Genesis:

Yeah, I mean, I think it is fuzzy. And I think for me, like I said earlier, like toxic masculinity seems sort of fuzzy and gray area in the way people use it. Rick, you're about to say like, what's the good side, there's nothing good about toxic masculinity. But it's just that people are attacking masculinity in itself, which there's good things of being of masculinity, which I think differs from toxic masculinity.

Sage:

I can actually tell you a similar story that happened between me and Adam. In third grade, he liked some girl keep mine to third grade. My he likes him girl. I ended up liking her. Next thing I know. Keep me out. I'm really good friends. At this point. We're in a circle out on the playground that's around us like, Oh, they've got to fight. They've got to fight. So me and Adam are circling each other. The whole time. I'm talking I'm like, Dude, what the fuck are we doing? So, like, oh, I

Genesis:

never actually,

Sage:

no, we never actually, we never actually fun because it just didn't make sense. I'm like, right? Like, neither one of we both knew this business crazy back then.

Genesis:

That's what I'm talking about, though. Like there's this pressure to use our fists, right as men. Like, that's how you handle situations, not use your words, not come up with a logical solution. But it's the immediately go to physical content that I think is part of toxic masculinity.

Rick:

Yeah, I agree. I think part of it is to like I said in the beginning where you know, the default is aggression, to be aggressive. Like if someone's doing something that I don't like, sometimes the first thought is I'm about to smack this motherfucker right now. You know, instead of being like, Hold on, let me chill. Let me just now here's the thing though. I was gonna bring this up a little later. In the conversation, but if that's what men do, why is it toxic masculinity, when we know women do the same thing where there's millions of women with their first thought is to hit someone. But we don't have a toxic femininity. It's only toxic masculinity.

Genesis:

I think it's more common in males though.

Sage:

Millions and millions of women's first thought to hit somebody really only applies when it comes to like, their man or whatever.

Rick:

I was about to say a different word. But yeah,

Sage:

because they know that we we can't hit them back because it's gonna be way worse for us than it is for them. Right? I mean, yeah, you do have some girls who scrap but then

Genesis:

I don't think I don't not hit women because I'm afraid of the repercussions.

Sage:

So why don't you not hit women in?

Genesis:

Because it just doesn't get ingrained in my DNA is? No, no,

Sage:

no, sorry. You put yourself in a man's place. I'm not just gonna sit there and let you hit me.

Genesis:

I think he was strain.

Sage:

So she just gets some free licks and fuck that. Sure. Heavy,

Rick:

heavy there. Have you been hit by a female? That wasn't? I No. No, no. Yeah, I've been hit before. Yeah, I can see that in Yeah. behaved before.

Genesis:

That was an ASIC masculine remark. No,

Sage:

no, that wasn't that was that was a light skinned? Yeah, of course.

Genesis:

It was racist. It's better

Rick:

not to say but no, it was. Yeah, it was an X. We were going back and forth. And I tried to do what you should do as you guys walk away. She just was not having it. She grabbed me by my arm. And yes, she got like two good hits. And

Genesis:

she's I mean, I don't disagree that there's probably women out there that take advantage of the no hate women. law that's built into

Sage:

us all for sure. Into y'all. I've never hit a woman because nobody's ever put herself in that. Well. That's a lie. I'm not my cousin one

Genesis:

time. female cousin. Yeah, she

Sage:

was talking match and I was like eight and she came at me and especially No, no, no, I got in trouble.

Genesis:

Eight of course I definitely fought women at eight.

Sage:

She's talking match and I just let one off

Rick:

I think I've talked about it on here where I am. The one and only time I've ever hit a female was my sister. When we were like, same age be like eight or No, I'm not counting my sister.

Genesis:

Yeah, that's a little different. Right? Even cousin maybe is a little different. But

Rick:

I hit to where the blood is that? I mean does that not? Hey, you

Genesis:

got punishment though?

Rick:

I almost got killed that night for sure. And it was my dad. My dad is probably woke me maybe three times my entire life. And that was the third time where Yeah, dude. Yeah, I'm shocked that I'm still here.

Sage:

What would you do? If you did something and I want you to try to regress back to when this happened when you did this your your dad came home and you thought you have about the work but instead he threw a pair of gloves at you and says squirrel yeah with him

Rick:

that you know I probably would have laughed more than anything

Sage:

Gacho as boring last your

Rick:

all you gotta die they

Sage:

Good Times good times. Yeah, childhood.

Genesis:

I don't know if I'm like, happier that I just only got bullied or got a break thrown at me. I don't know which one I would choose.

Rick:

Oh, man, I'm still losing it over there break. Like, hey, ridiculous.

Sage:

That's literally scratches the surface of my life.

Genesis:

Yes. Well, I mean, along those same lines, as far as the feeling of the mental health illness that goes with toxic masculinity. You guys have never felt the need, like, can't see a doctor. I can't see a therapist as a man like those pressures never have gotten to you at all in your entire life.

Sage:

Well, again, I know for sure that this isn't toxicity thing because black people as a whole don't really like therapists or doctors.

Genesis:

When you say like a black man, so you're dealing with toxic or potential for toxic masculinity built within that culture. All right. Well, I mean, more so even

Sage:

we 100% Sure. Like we should definitely take our, our mental and physical health way more serious than we do. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. We just don't like I hate going to the doctor like, I can't even be in the hospital. Like, it just freaks me the fuck out going to the hospital. It could be somebody who I really care about in there and I'd be like, alright, well, I gotta go like you just got here. Yeah, no.

Genesis:

I think fear is a little bit different though. I think the idea when it comes to toxic masculinity is that you won't go because it shows a sign of weakness. If you do go nuts. That is what you're describing.

Sage:

No, I just really don't like that. Yeah.

Genesis:

I think that's a little different.

Sage:

Yeah, 100% Sure. How'd you finish it? Yeah. I don't know if I've ever thought of it or thought of it as like being like a weakness. Like you're saying. Me? Like, oh, no, I can't be weak. I think if anything, the place toxic masculinity runs rampant is at the gym.

Rick:

Okay, one Yeah. 100.

Sage:

You get the job. Even if you're just getting started. You'll sit there and let's say you get on the bench like, Oh, yeah. Okay. You're just starting your journey. Your first day in the gym. You look over and you see everybody, this dude's lifting that much this much. And he's like, Well, if he can do it, I can fucking do. I'm like, I'm not gonna I'm not about being a bitch up in here. And then almost kill yourself.

Genesis:

Right? So the competitiveness takes over what you're talking about.

Rick:

Yeah. So yeah, I thought you were going the other route, where when you go into the gym, and there's someone watching you, and there's someone that like, feels this need to come up and be like, is it all your lifting? That's trash? Yeah, I understand going up to someone and be like, Hey, this is probably a better way to do this routine. I get that. But

Genesis:

mansplaining

Rick:

dude, no, make the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

Sage:

Not even that because I've people have done it to me at the gym before and I've done it to people before where you'll just have a glance over and see somebody doing an exercise, but they're doing it in a way that they're gonna hurt themselves. So you just so you go there and be like, Hey, do you like this and we'll put so much pressure like on your back or something? No, it's a lot more safer.

Rick:

Right that's why giving someone advice or something like that that's completely fine. But even if someone's doing the routine wrong to go up to them and just ridicule them and be like you're a fucking idiot or even posting the video online of them doing a routine the wrong way. Like

Sage:

I'm right there with like the thing that's about the devil is so toxic to me is when people sit there and talk shit about Oh, you'll see like overweight person on awesome equipment like oh, why even using I need users might do? They're here trying and you're giving them shit? Right? There's

Genesis:

this guy and tic tac I don't know that those usage me Tell me about this or somebody else. But there's this guy and tic tac toe. All his content videos are basically pulling up videos of other people that are like at the gym, and usually like overweight people or something, then reading off the comments, and basically talking shit about the people making the comments in expressing the same thing that you're talking. Yeah,

Rick:

I know. Exactly. Yeah, but he's like a super swole Why do I think he's bald? I think, but he's like, he's like, the original talker will come up and, you know, ridicule the person for what they're doing. And then he'll cut in and be like, you know, how about instead of we ridicule him and do all this? How about we promote better health and we promote a better environment for people to live healthier?

Genesis:

Yeah, and I mean, it's an example of masculinity, maybe evolving. Like, you wouldn't see that shit fucking in the 90s at all right? See somebody sticking up for you would just pile on the jokes as well. We see it and then we see that with growing up and just calling somebody else gay. And then that and doesn't necessarily come from a place of homophobia or calling somebody a bitch like these are things these are terms that we all have used in a way to just basically portray somebody being weaker because bitch oh, meaning you're like a female you're weak. Gay, we see that as a weak male, you know, like these are things that we've used in our own toxic masculine ways that it's good to see that we're kind of evolving as as men in society I mean, although I think sage called Rick rubbish five times this episode, so

Sage:

it's my common vernacular. When I'm learning that, some you are really insecure as a kid.

Genesis:

Absolutely. 100% Yeah. And I it's not like I made it easier on myself to being

Sage:

Oh, I remember how you dress

Rick:

While the your your golf while

Sage:

a golf Juggalo

Rick:

Yeah, you are a juggler

Genesis:

oh yeah

Rick:

all right let's let's go

Genesis:

denounce my past let's

Rick:

let's move past it. I can I can feel the toxic masculinity rising in me bitch

Sage:

whoo you were just talking about me

Rick:

now let me think about

Sage:

it though. Like you were saying like calling people bitches stuff like that like guys calling to quit being a full complicity

Genesis:

you soft you're soft. But yeah be opposed

Sage:

if anything I'm like that's a compliment Plus he's a weak bro get all like thank you kind sir as I keep moving

Genesis:

well it's kind of funny you say that again I know I've mentioned this show a few times you guys actually got to watch the series on Netflix the history of swear words and the term bitch they talk about sort of the journey that's had and like how women are taking the word back and empowering it so it's not just a term of weakness or anything like that.

Sage:

More power to the Okay, I guess the argument I was about to say can also kind of be saved for the end work. Be like okay, so I just hate it when girls be like, Oh, well, you know, I'm a bad bitch and I'm like, Alright, cool. Cool. Cool. Can I call you bitches prom?

Rick:

Lupe Fiasco is

Sage:

not just women. They always say that, you know? Shit, like a boss or boss bitch or something.

Rick:

He had a whole song called bad. Or I think it was just called bad. Maybe. Something like that. But the whole song was yeah, like, if you call yourself a Babbage, it's cool. But if I call you a Babbage, then I'm being disrespectful. And it's very similar to the N word right? Where I can call you the N word. But Jen has called you the N word before but he can't do it publicly. You can you can.

Genesis:

Always repercussion. You cannot say

Rick:

you cannot tell me that and your gigolo days. You have never said the pillow. gigolo. Or what did I say? You know what I meant in those days, there's no way you weren't saying it. Like, every two seconds. No, you are in your room.

Sage:

I don't care what any white person on this person says when they're alone in the car and listen to music. If hip hop song Come on, they saying that word.

Genesis:

That's a whole other conversation. fine to say anyways, oh,

Rick:

well, I think we just discovered our next topic idea. When is the N word? Okay? Never know, no, but like, it is strange how some things can be positive in one line. Like in times of war, you absolutely want toxic masculinity in on the battlefield. You don't want someone walking up to someone with a gun and being like, hey, let's talk about this man. You know,

Genesis:

I mean, like do or is like toxic in itself. Right? Can you I mean, maybe

Sage:

it's true. Well, to be fair, if countries are going to war at that point, talking has failed.

Genesis:

Right, right, right. So then you sort of revert back to primal nature.

Sage:

We can try to talk it out all day. But he's still not gonna listen. Well. I gotta make you listen.

Genesis:

Which is unfortunate. Like I hopefully one day if we live to get so evolved, that we can eliminate that and have some sense of peace. So there's no fear of who's letting the president. True. Yeah, he's gonna send those assassin hit squads out.

Sage:

People just start dropping like flies slowly becoming a better place.

Genesis:

Where did that dictator go? Let me see No, no, in a while.

Sage:

Yeah, that's hilarious. Wouldn't be good either. I'm talking my poison. I'm doing I'm doing just discrete stuff.

Genesis:

So switching it up a little bit. What do you guys think? I mean, toxic masculinity. That term itself has been around for a while. We see it a lot more now and sort of the Twitterverse and then the development of culture where we're at now like it's becoming prominent, we're calling this turned out a little bit isn't being used properly, you

Sage:

know, 100% being taken advantage of look at the whole cancel culture. For the smallest infraction, people want to cancel you.

Genesis:

Yeah. Yeah,

Rick:

I mean, you see videos every day all day about how a guy explaining something in just any way at all is all of a sudden mansplaining you know, like, you can't have an opinion at all as a man. Now let me rephrase it you can have an opinion as a man. But if it's about women's issues, or if it's about anything in general, where you're correcting the opposite sex, it is now mansplaining

Sage:

see, and I don't even care about them because you have you're hardcore feminist. And then women don't even like them.

Rick:

Yeah, yeah, it's easy like, like you're saying it is easy to forget that there are tons of women that are just not toxic in that regard themselves. You know, there are tons of them that don't think all mentorship and I think most women don't think all mentorship but

Sage:

like, like those bitter bitches are bitter. Jesus, who every Father's Day, Oh, get rid of Father's Day. Why don't fathers needed a Fuck you bitch. It takes two to tango.

Genesis:

That's kind of silly.

Rick:

Yeah. Or when people say Happy Father's Day to moms and stuff like that. It's like, all right, like, how about instead of like, let men have the day, right? We don't That's like going to a cancer rally. And tomorrow. What about AIDS? Right. Like,

Sage:

I can't murder. Right, exactly. I can't jump on board that because every year from Mother's Day, I hit up, right? And I'm like, Hey, Happy Mother's Day. You know, is your bitch.

Rick:

Oh, I didn't my brother. I absolutely called Shawn and was like, hey, Happy Mother's Day. I mean, he's married to the mother of his children. They she's absolutely in the picture. But you know, I still gotta let him know.

Genesis:

I love the tactic you guys did on this episode. Like you started off the first half like yeah, like I love musicals. You know, Disney kid, though, you know, it's fine. I cry share my feelings. Fuck these bit of bitches back and hold your ring a man and now the true colors are coming out. For the record.

Rick:

The bitches part was not me. I want to record this show that phantom had nothing to do with it. Rick had

Sage:

common vernacular.

Genesis:

It's lost all meaning it's just your insert.

Rick:

What? You have to do that with like, you don't do that with your brother, Jim. Cuz he's a dad, right? He's not a dad. Oh, okay. Well, then

Genesis:

he doesn't get a Father's Day message either.

Rick:

Yeah, dude, I would.

Genesis:

I would. I would wish Ray a Mother's Day because he's, he's a single dad. He's a bit

Rick:

now he we share the same last name. So he is he's more than likely a brother. But

Sage:

if it makes you feel better, he beat me to it this year. He called me the day before Mother's Day. He's like Happy Mother's Day. Because you're a bitch. I'm like, I mean, got a kid.

Rick:

Got a kid? That's hilarious. He's like, Oh, Happy Mother's Day.

Genesis:

Yeah, getting back to it, though. Like, as far as like, if it's used right or used? I don't know, what's the word? I wouldn't say positive but like in a forward progressive manner. I mean, women calling us out on our bullshit, even though there's some casualties of war that comes with that, generally speaking. Is it good? Like, are we progressing to be better men because of this

Sage:

calling out? That's 100% Fine. I'm all for it. As long as I'm asking,

Genesis:

is that going that way? Because of what No,

Sage:

I don't see it going that way. Because the flow isn't going both ways. It's all one sided. Like, cuz women like to believe that. They live in society from like the 50s where they're all Suzie homemaker. And this perfect wife and we go to work, we make all the we make all the money, we expect you to have this sadness. And they have no opinion when that's not the fucking case anymore. Women are leaders of industry. They hold strong political positions. And like, like their rich boss motherfuckers. Like, yeah, playing field is becoming unbelievably even. So if you're going to call us out on our bullshit, we should be able to call you out on your bullshit. What bullshit

Genesis:

would you call them out on like, what's toxic femininity?

Sage:

Um, let's see. I ain't talking to nobody under 510 and he has to have at least $70,000 in it. Don't crib meanwhile, she is four foot nothing has six kids from six different baby daddies.

Genesis:

Well, yeah, that's, that's not feminine quality.

Sage:

It's not a feminine quality, but it's becoming a very big norm that we have to have, we have to have x, y, z. And they don't have anything. They don't have really had to come up with anything. But if we mentioned it, then we're the fucking problem.

Rick:

Right? And you know what, a lot of times the standards that they'd like to put out, and I'm not talking about women specifically, but a lot of the standards that you hear, isn't us. It's not us creating those standards most of the time, right? Like if these

Sage:

beauty standards and shit, yeah, that's the fucking magazines, by your own gender.

Rick:

Yeah. It's not because like, men, by and large, you know, particularly care. Yeah. Well, I know some of us, we have preferences. But it's also it's not like we're, we're against the what we have a preference of, you know what I mean?

Sage:

Like, you got you got a couple of animals out there, for sure. Yeah. Yeah.

Rick:

But like you don't, you know, particular for a specific race of people, right? But you're not going to turn that down. You're not going to be like, Nah, I'm good. You might although, you know, I never I forgot who I'm talking to. You might

Genesis:

might say, excuse me.

Sage:

Women will legit if a dude did this, which we wouldn't be able to because the way society is, but women will legit have dudes saved in their phones, that they strictly go on dates with to buy them dinner. Oh, yeah. And then. And then after that, they be like, Oh, well, you know, can't hang out anymore, then go meet up some other dude and suck his dick that night?

Genesis:

Well, I mean, obviously, that's shitty. But I think that comes that's a byproduct of women feeling more empowered, and being able to be independent within society. You know, they're playing catch up to hundreds of years of masculine dominance. I think it's logical to expect that type of byproduct where you're saying like, if you ain't this, this and this, then you're not on my level. See? Sure. It could be shitty to say, but I think

Sage:

they know that level.

Genesis:

Well, yeah. You don't have to dater.

Rick:

No, I agree. I kind of agree with what you said. But at the same time, the reason why I can't fully agree is because yes, they can hundreds of years where they're behind, right. But you can't try to rise to our level, but then call our level toxic. Like so you're saying you want to be toxic with us? Let's say that is that kind of

Genesis:

because the things that are being called out as toxic is what? Put men in dominance for all those years, you know, violence and aggression, and battering the week. That's all like, inhumane toxic shit that man had been doing for hundreds of years to stay in those, you know, like, putting restrictions and laws in place that keep women below you. It's not hard to see.

Sage:

I mean, I guess they you can say that they were below us. But when shit hit the fan, it was always women and children first. I never heard y'all get out of here. Right? It was never. It was like building on fire. Get the one that children first. I'm stuck. She walked out. You pick up this motor? Can you?

Genesis:

Well, that's a good point. Because that's that's another thing that I don't know if that's necessarily toxic masculinity, but maybe a point on why it's important to call out toxic masculinity because something like that, you know, we're like, yes, women and children first. But there's this idea that men maybe it's just self imposed, but have to be heroes in every situation. Or you have to be the leader in an emergency. And that can lead to a lot of stress. And like that's not healthy for us as men to have to like bear those kind of stresses to live up to sort of the dotted lines of what it means to be a man

Sage:

I forget who said I think you said I think was like Chris Wright or some but he was talking about a situation like that. And his his left like baby you know, he's like bit jumpscare too

Genesis:

that's what's hilarious, too, because like we're breaking away from that, but it's it is unhealthy to think that way or to feel pressure into that and I think those are positive notes for calling out toxic masculinity to break that a little bit.

Sage:

See, I don't think it's toxic masculinity. I think we need to just get rid of that word, just toxic humanism at this point.

Genesis:

Sure. I mean, I do agree with you like when I always heard toxic masculinity Be like, Well, shit, what am I doing that is positive masculinity or toxic masculinity? Which one like, and I have to and I hate having to like question and like, follow the rules when I'm, you know, just trying to be a decent human being.

Sage:

Yeah, you have some some women, not all women, but you have someone who will get mad at you for holding the door for him.

Rick:

Yeah, I've had that before.

Sage:

I'm like, Are you fucking kidding me? I was trying to be nice and courteous. And now all of a sudden, I'm a big

Genesis:

Well, yeah, because like, what does that represent? I don't know. Maybe there's some history there have like,

Sage:

there's a reason chivalry is dead.

Genesis:

But I'd be curious, like, you know, do women actually feel that way? Or is it is it a small percentage that think that that is a display of toxic masculinity?

Sage:

I remember one day, this was, like 11 or 12 years ago, something like that. When I was dating Aaron. We had just came out the movie there, and it's pouring rain. And she's like, Yeah, go get the car and pull it up. Like, so I can get wet and you stay dry. You come in with me? Is an equal relationship with the fuck you thought this was? She got all mad, but I'm like, alright, you just gonna be standing here. It's called

Genesis:

Well, that's shitty. Yeah, I

Rick:

don't know if y'all know. I'm sorry.

Sage:

If I'm getting wet, we get dynamic.

Rick:

That's like, you're both getting mugged. And then he's like, No, I just want your shit. And you're like, hey, alright, come on. You gotta get your shit out to He wants all. Yeah, well, if you're both like if you're getting shot, or you

Sage:

are a human issue, we are a unit or one

Rick:

that we're not together. To this day, I still do the chivalry thing. Go around, open the car door or hold the door open for everyone. But that's just how I was raised. My dad was very like, you show respect at all times. And until they showed it until they're disrespectful. You show respect?

Sage:

Yeah, I want to do the car door but I opened up the door because you're just just you don't do the car door.

Rick:

You don't walk around to open it. How do I do every time?

Genesis:

I open the door open first random strangers.

Sage:

Yeah. Opening up the door for ya do that. But nothing pisses me off when I open up a door for a random stranger and then they don't say thank you when they walk by. Oh, yeah.

Rick:

Yeah. I get out.

Genesis:

Well, then what are you doing? Are you doing it for your own selfish reasons?

Sage:

No, no, at this point is just second nature. You just fucking do it. Yeah, like if I'm leaving out somewhere and I see two people walking up out the door. But then sometimes while I'm doing it, because let's say it's two white people in the back of my head like, Mr. Doorman.

Rick:

It's like this. You're supposed to do that. No, no, I mean, I should. But I don't have to say thank you.

Sage:

Majority is having to do but every now and then you get that one person. I'm like, Look, you

Rick:

know what I what I've started doing is when they don't say anything. I'll just say You're welcome.

Sage:

Wow, just loud and ignorant.

Rick:

I don't get to play Okay, I did. Well, you're welcome. You know and aggressive when I do that, though. Nine times out of 10 The person will go off sorry. Thank you. I'm and they usually will just give me some excuse. Like I'm just in my own world or whatever. Yeah, but there's yeah, there's always a few times where they don't even respond really. And look at you. They just keep walking.

Genesis:

And you keep doing it. Yeah. Beat up too harsh by the smart

Rick:

dad. My dad Dude, my dad has absolutely ingrain that in me like nah, motherfucker. You're definitely going to be respectful.

Sage:

Just start carrying a lasso and every time they don't say thank you just pull them back through the door. Open it open it to fucking so just walking.

Rick:

But then what if I last them around the neck in any

Sage:

yankin that's a hate crime. That's my point. Jesus

Rick:

went off the rails a little bit Tom

Genesis:

Welcome back

Rick:

to our new listeners. Don't worry about it. All of our content is not like this. Notice the N word

Genesis:

DSP edited that out. I'll never know toxic whiteness.

Rick:

I can't I cannot wait until I take over the editing. responsibilities. Let me

Genesis:

take clips from outside of our conversation and put them in as if we were saying

Rick:

oh no oh no, I absolutely will. Now I've been secretly recording every X block live conversation I got some gems of you seen some work

Genesis:

on a museum for toxic masculinity?

Rick:

For sure.

Sage:

Modeling any of us should be allowed to do that. No,

Rick:

no, no, absolutely. Absolutely not. Definitely not me

Sage:

don't do nothing but just paint yourself to be in the best light all of a sudden Rick will start sounding Harvard educated

Genesis:

right huh

Rick:

I'm gonna I'm gonna read up all my audio I say I sound entirely smart and then you all's responses you're gonna be you're gonna sound like you're drooling and fucking

Genesis:

Now listen, DSP already gets he gets paid the big bucks to make us sound as intelligent. We end up sounding to the listeners

Rick:

Oh my goodness.

Sage:

Which sadly says a lot. Yeah, I you know, a DSP insert darkness my.

Rick:

I kind of want to DSP to start keeping a like a tally of how many times either I'll say um, or, like if I make the little popping sound that you said I made? I made or like if I stutter or something? Because I'm because since you said it, I'm actively trying to not do it.

Sage:

I'm pretty sure he has like, a blooper reel. Just just waiting for one day where we just fuck up. He's like, Oh, okay.

Rick:

Yeah, he's gonna be like, okay,

Sage:

okay. All right.

Genesis:

You don't want to pay me this week. All right.

Rick:

Or you didn't say DSP. Edit that out one time this whole episode. Okay. All right. Oh, by the way, fuck you, Kurt.

Sage:

I was waiting for this cat.

Rick:

It's gotta be a thing. It's gotta be a thing. I fucking choke while I'm

Genesis:

at it I don't know anymore. Now, I was going to give you guys some common quotes. You know men say are here. And you guys are going to determine if it's toxic masculinity or not.

Sage:

Is one of the quotes. I won't be there. This no no never was.

Genesis:

It is now is Yeah, yeah, that one

Sage:

no bad. No Paco. My fans fuck. Yami

Genesis:

Yeah, that just happened.

Sage:

You were poking my fans. You've been down. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. You were too busy being down with the clown.

Rick:

My intro as my intros.

Genesis:

Yeah, maybe? No. Nowhere near actually. All right. All right. Yeah, so I got some phrases here for you guys. And you guys tell me if these are toxic masculinity or not. Okay. Well, we kind of already talked about this, but boys don't cry.

Rick:

Yeah, I think it's a little toxic.

Sage:

As somebody who doesn't cry, I will agree. It is I mean, if you want to cry cry,

Genesis:

throw like a girl.

Rick:

Yes, that's absolutely toxic. I

Sage:

mean, have you seen a majority of the girls or?

Genesis:

Yeah, I'm softball players. Oh,

Sage:

holy. Yeah. Oh, dude, softball players are ridiculous. Now softball in itself. I think it's toxic masculinity.

Rick:

Or the fact that we don't call it baseball. No.

Sage:

The fact that they have to use a softball. There's nothing about baseball to where they can use a normal baseball bat just like we do.

Rick:

Well, yeah, no, I think you're absolutely right. There's nothing about the bat. There's nothing about the ball that you can't play regular baseball.

Sage:

It makes absolutely no sense to me never has.

Rick:

Now one thing I will say. I think they need to stop bullshitting around and just lower the rim for the WNBA just by like no not hear me out. I'm saying this because Wait, I'm saying this because I think you're toxic? No, they don't nobody watches you for it. Yeah. Attendance is awful. They're being subsidized by the NBA. So they really don't make a whole lot of money themselves. And I think they don't not saying they don't realize like I'm not mansplaining Go fuck yourself. But I'm saying that one of the reasons why the NBA games get so much more more viewership is because of how exciting the games are where people are. People are actually looping to each other. That is not they look like they're struggling to shoot a regular free throw, like, very textbook. Yeah, like if you lowered even just two inches, three inches. Let Brittney Griner go out there and put her nuts on. Some dudes are some cheeses. Brittney Griner go out there and dunk on these fools. I think it'll be. I think it'll blow up in popularity since the games really aren't that fun to watch

Genesis:

as they're not the same height and envy.

Rick:

No, that's the product. It is. That's the problem. For every Brittney Griner. There's like 20 Muggsy Bogues. Like the average female basketball player, I think is like five, six.

Sage:

She's still being illegally detained. Yes, she's

Rick:

still in Russia. I was just talking about that yesterday. That's wild that there's not a bigger

Sage:

outcry for her. There's like there's almost no media coverage.

Rick:

Like why is she still over there? Like I get it. She had the hash oil. It's been like three months now.

Genesis:

Average? WNBA NBA height is five, nine. All

Rick:

that it's like, okay, okay. All right. I bet you they'll catch this faith though.

Sage:

Oh, Martin, not the same thing. Lisa, Lisa, Lisa Leslie beat the brakes on

Rick:

this fight. Ultimate basketball? No.

Genesis:

What do you think the average height is for the NBA?

Rick:

Oh, 656.

Sage:

Let's say like six three, something like that?

Genesis:

Six, four. Yeah. Yeah. And it actually says the average height has been declining. Or some interesting reason I'm sure. Yeah,

Rick:

cuz not I know. Women want that. But not every males shacks height of seven, three foot tall as

Sage:

well, then, you know, because of stricter FDA regulations. There's not as many steroids and foods anymore.

Genesis:

Oh, growth hormones and all that. Yeah. All right. What about man up?

Sage:

I'd say yes. Because everything about Yeah, that's a yes. Even though I like seeing it.

Genesis:

I'm assuming when you say you're saying in sort of a joking role or

Sage:

to a friend. Yeah. I'm not talking shit to anybody saying that.

Genesis:

Yeah, like they just broke up, or they just got dumped by their girlfriend and you're like, man up,

Sage:

right? Oh, no. I'm not gonna kick somebody when they're down.

Rick:

No, no, because yeah, I think I've called you before when I was going through relationships shape, and I don't recall you ever telling me to mana I'll be honest, it might have been funny here. Maybe.

Sage:

But I feel like there's between telling somebody it's condescending to tell somebody man up outside of a joking manner. You know for sure. Yeah. But I feel like if you tell somebody man the fuck up. That's like serious shits about to happen. I need you in the game. I need your head and fucking game right now.

Genesis:

Right? It almost feels like bad advice that you would have heard in the 90s. Like, I'm sure they said that a ton on Boy Meets World.

Rick:

I was I didn't say man up. I was talking to this girl once. And she was talking about that she had to go to her car or something like that? No. Okay. I was 20 at the time. So let me start off with saying that. But we were dating. We were talking and she had to run to her car after getting up for work at like 10 o'clock. And at the time I lived about an hour away. I wouldn't drive it all the way up there for that. And so just in a joking way I go you know, it's just put your big boy pants on and just dart out to the car. Fun fact I have never talked to her kids since

Sage:

she got in the car and just never

Rick:

know she just give please get a pack of cigarettes. No, no. Like she's missing so much. She cut me off completely. Like she's, she could really blocked me on everything.

Genesis:

That was the joke we were making. That she killed her so she's

Rick:

gonna say like she was missing. No.

Sage:

Put on her big boy pants and just run out there. So she ran out there and never came.

Genesis:

I mean, it was the last been you. There's no clear

Rick:

path to what you're saying. Like,

Sage:

yeah, it's right there. Couldn't be if it was paid in stone, it couldn't be included. No.

Rick:

Ha you would have got it. No, no. What so what you guys did was Do you know what I made for dinner tonight? Oh, you didn't know I made pizza and it was clear his dad made pizza like that's what you don't think you know what you just did not know what you that's exactly what it was no not at all I

Sage:

just said I told this girl to just you know put on her big boy pants and run out there real fast. And then she cut me off. So which we say no no, no,

Rick:

no that's not no no that no I said that. She cut me off after you all say no that. No DSBA ruwan

Sage:

Okay, okay, let's let's say I'm wrong. context clues. lets me know that she cuts you off.

Genesis:

I'm pretty sure we made the joke after he said she was he was cut off.

Rick:

I said I never heard from her again. My exact words. Yeah, cuz I don't know like,

Sage:

on her big boy pants and got hit by a car.

Genesis:

I am going to get a pack of cigarettes. You know the common thing the dad would say to before he ditches his family like I thought

Rick:

it was milk. I thought the dads got usually go get milk.

Sage:

Next question.

Genesis:

Milk that yeah,

Rick:

I'm gonna go get some milk. Oh, hold on me pronounce me. yak yak.

Genesis:

Ernest scared stupid. And we're back. This one's for you, Rick. Maybe I don't I'm actually curious why? You guys might have given me some enlightenment and why you think this is on this list. But the phrases you better lock up That daughter of yours.

Rick:

Oh, that is not only toxic. That is crazy. Shit.

Sage:

That's super creepy. Super creepy.

Genesis:

Yeah. Okay, so I am reading it as it sounds.

Sage:

Like one of your friends then yeah, only friends no more.

Genesis:

Rick, do you handle issues of like, gender or gender equality with your daughters? Like, is that something that's come up here? I know. There's pretty young but

Rick:

you know, in a way. Yes. Violet used to always think that. Anytime someone did something, she would say that's what boys do. Or that's what girls do. You know? And, you know, I try to kind of be like, well, no boys can do the same thing if they want. You shouldn't just because you see more boys doing it doesn't mean you should make fun of someone else. We're doing it. Thankfully, she seems to have gotten that out of her system. But other deeper stuff. No.

Sage:

People used to give me shit about my hoops. My hoop earring. Like all boys don't wear hoots. Mike. Whoa, I'm wearing hoops. Yeah, I like the way I look. I look better and Houston stood somewhere in fucking hoops. Yeah,

Rick:

I went to Gamestop once to buy a ps4 controller. And the girl behind the counter just immediately grabbed the balloon. And she was like, alright, here this ceiling will we have? I'm like, No. What about the pink one? She was like, you want pink? I was like, Yeah, I actually kind of do want the pink one. And she's like, you're Wow. Most guys come in here. And they're just like pagans for for sissies and stuff. It's like, well, it's corny. It's stupid.

Sage:

I'm not you just like camera.

Rick:

I'm like yeah man Dipset no for like this silly to me. Like I went to when I worked at BestBuy I wore a purple button up dress shirt for like my first day. And I had people come up to me saying Oh, you're brave for wearing purple like it's color. It's a color who gives a shit Purple's my favorite color? Yeah, like purple is dope. That blue is the best but purple second.

Genesis:

I mean, it's in the same family.

Sage:

Maybe they were saying you braid because the shade of purple. Maybe didn't go with your skin skin.

Rick:

That purple.

Sage:

I mean, certain people just can't wear certain shades of shirts. It just doesn't look right.

Genesis:

Should we just do like a roast episode where we

Sage:

just Well, no, no, no. I mean I would not look right in the orange anything. I would have weird shit.

Genesis:

Orange. Oh, because your skin tone you think? Yeah,

Sage:

it just it would clash with my skin tone.

Rick:

You should get blonde hair. Like that would be That'd be funny. It wouldn't look right at all. What I think you should do what it was

Genesis:

do it because you'll look funny.

Sage:

My clown but no like end up being taken from how much am I like and just pulling, pulling it off. Totally pulling it off.

Genesis:

And I feel like we we've started. We've replaced Witcher and Kojima with How I Met Your Mother and father as a matter of references we do

Rick:

I mean, that's true. I haven't brought up either them in a few episodes. I brought up one of them today. But

Sage:

let's say you introduced yourself with Kojima. What

Rick:

I didn't bring up last couple of years. So I don't think I brought any of them up. You all bring them up most of the time?

Genesis:

Yes, yeah. Because, yeah, I'm grasping on to the past

Rick:

right. The first 60 episodes were all me

Genesis:

back to the first five episodes and doesn't mind when you got to tell us about Kojima and what's your today rent? Ransom, ransom.

Rick:

I can't wait to the YouTube comments start rolling in as people just like, I wish this guy was shut the fuck up about Kojima

Genesis:

tune in to Episode 48 when he actually did shut the fuck up about it. Boys will be boys.

Sage:

I don't I don't think that's toxic. I don't think

Rick:

No, I don't think so. You

Genesis:

see, I thought the same, but then I was thinking about that one a lot. Because that statement comes up a lot in terms of toxic masculinity because it almost gives approval for the action of the person.

Sage:

I don't think it's toxic, depending on the age group. If you're a young kid, I would say below teen so let's go like 10 Maybe even 11 Boys will be boys. Like I that that's fine. I mean, you know, boys roughhousing is just what we do. Right. But if you're a teenager an adult, and you're like, oh, boy, the boys first of all you need to be arrested.

Genesis:

Yeah, because that mean that came out and a lot of rape situations where you know, I believe in the ya know, as female and you're like, you know, boys will be boys. They're just you wanted it you know, kind of shit. Like

Sage:

I never I never understood the whole you want. I'm like she's clearly telling you this

Rick:

doesn't make Yeah, that's not really a good defense at all. Like no, I think the I think the screaming and the crying and kicking and on I think that kind of kind of throws

Genesis:

Breakfast Club like what was the what did you do? They duct taped his ass open or something like that. What was it? What was the story? He told?

Sage:

You mean? The actual movie Breakfast Club?

Genesis:

Yeah,

Sage:

that's actually talking about the other podcast I'm like, What are you talking about?

Genesis:

Now when Emilio was opening up

Sage:

Yeah, I know what you're talking I just can't remember what he said but I know what you're talking about though.

Genesis:

But imagine like he BAM like a character like that his dad were like Oh boys will be boys and like bullying situations and like so are fraternities and high school situations where you got like jacks or some picking on the nerds and yeah, that's hitting home for me of course but so I think the more I like I like thought about the boys will be boys statement. It definitely. Now I agree. Like yeah, sure. Maybe if you use it in a smaller age group or a younger age group. It takes them a little bit of a different meaning. But I think as a whole it's definitely feels like a toxic statement.

Sage:

If whenever I've heard that enough said by older people it's generally been people from the caucus mountains Sure. I don't think that's the thing because in I mean, no, I'm not saying it right. Doesn't happen in in the black community because of course it does. But I don't think anybody's ever been like, Oh, well. Boys will be boys. i You hear that? More from like, sports things like sports coaches, and she like that talking about their team and shit like that.

Genesis:

Right? The hazing rituals that can come out of some of that stuff.

Sage:

Yeah. As an adult, no, there's no reason you should be saying anything about boys. Even if you change it to Men will be men. That's even weird. That is kind

Genesis:

of where Men will be men the fuck

Sage:

What does that mean? So please explain.

Genesis:

Man is the one to take care of the entire family.

Sage:

I mean, I think it's toxic only because I need sugar mama my only jobs was look look good. cook and clean. I got it.

Genesis:

Be a little cabana boy. Be happy to go. But I think the task sickness is that maybe not so much now but I would. I would imagine in a lot of parts of the country or even the world where men feel like that is the sole role of their position is to be the one that takes care of the entire family. And that's a huge amount of like responsibility for someone to heal. You know,

Sage:

there's and that's because pressure from a fucked up society. Because you have these men who put other men down and try to make themselves look good in front of women talking about oh, if you with me, you're not paying for nothing I want or if you want me I want to let I want you to work with me you won't allow her she she want to fuck her work Why would you get let her get her bed? That's more money into the fucking house. I've

Genesis:

never understood that either. Yeah, and I've seen those I've seen I've seen that in place you know that I like my wife will never work or done the opposite he doesn't want me to work and he won't let me work you know, it's like it's such a weird thought process.

Sage:

If I'm making six figures and you got to trade or craft that you can also make six figures Why the fuck would I not want you to work? Now if you're talking about you want to work and you get up every day and go to McDonald's, you stay at home

Genesis:

I don't know if he's bringing me home chicken nuggets every night like the dream but I mean also for anybody listening we're not gonna have Rick the rest of this episode because he's poor as Walmart Internet just went out you know he's not gonna listen to this so we could really actually say anything about the

Sage:

Cracker Jack and and a bird flew over his house and

Genesis:

I think he got a cease and desist from Kojima all the shit he was talking about having a phone number.

Sage:

Now he his kids finally had finally tired of running on that hamster wheel which powered his internet he's a bad parents what we're seeing right now,

Genesis:

what we're saying? What a toxic masculine dad. Again, fuck with it. What I was gonna say though, is do you think your viewpoint on that as far as like, you know, not giving a shit if the woman wants to work or your you know, your partner or whatever. Because your mom is an independent, resourceful woman. And so you grew up around her, or you grew up around powerful women essentially. And like, in my case, to you know, my mom's very independent woman to doesn't take shit from man. So like, I grew up with that ideology as well. I mean, I mean, that plays a major role into how you're viewing women, I guess.

Sage:

I mean, I could possibly have an influence on it. I just always thought that if I'm busting my ass every day, why you get to live the easy life, you know? Yeah. And then, you know, you have this whole subset of women who sit there and say, well, raising kids is work that I'm doing it to

Genesis:

Wait, so you're not dismissing the fact that it's work. And don't use that?

Sage:

Because they're all you really do when you come home and you sit on the couch? I'm with them all day. Oh, boohoo you're with them all day. They take a nap. A good majority of that day.

Genesis:

Okay, so you are just missing the housewife work for little kids? Yes. It's worse for little kids. No, because the harder

Sage:

you put them down once they take Yeah, it's rough when they're up. Because they're up and all over the place. Oh shit. Yeah. When you when they take a nap, they're down for what hour? To an hour, two hours whatever. Some places only get 30 minutes break. You told me you get two hours

Genesis:

to go like what they don't get. They're cleaning the house. They're preparing meals and

Sage:

today in today's day and age you ain't even got to do it. You got to put them down stick a fucking iPad in front of them. Maybe on YouTube just content for hours. Why are you doing whatever the fuck you want to do? Yeah,

Genesis:

Rick, welcome back. Rick. We did think you were off for the rest of this episode. So don't listen to this part of the episode where you left

Sage:

there was nothing bad said about you. I keep saying we were actually weren't. We weren't for your safety.

Rick:

There's like a little red icon on the top left. So I don't know what's going on. But yeah, so you tell my children when they just sit in front of the iPads and play all day? No, he

Genesis:

was trying to say that housewives or homemakers? It's not a real job.

Rick:

Not is not you tell the bill birthday where he's like your fault. Yeah, we

Sage:

talked about it too. It was man I don't I don't consider being a stay at home. Mom a real job that being said, I love to be a stay at home dad. Also not a real job, which is why I love being stay at home dad.

Genesis:

Probably see it on both sides. I guess all the episode

Sage:

into my bag about woman bashing

Genesis:

your own show Oh, did you get Is there anything else you wanted to talk about that? I mean, I think we're losing Rick in and out I don't know if he's actually here but

Sage:

nobody ever really here. Whoa, whoa,

Genesis:

simulation he's a simulation. I created him I coded him he got simulation

Sage:

theory in all right well that no didn't catch me nowhere I may start streaming actually might might be streaming this weekend. Well actually no, you won't hear this next week. So it might be streaming the weekend after I'm talking about my words now. Evil Dead it's gonna get streamed at some point. That's what I'm getting at.

Genesis:

Friday the 13th release of Evil Dead whether this goes up before or after that.

Rick:

It's gonna be so fun everyone. This I might post this this week, so I'll just push it out tonight. Yeah,

Genesis:

yeah yeah,

Sage:

but yeah, like I was saying, yeah, um, my name is Jeff. Um it sometime on Twitch, you'll be able to find me. Like might be in the description. If not, you can always catch xcerts on the ticky. talkies. At least kids are calling it

Genesis:

I want some Takis now. Oh, it's fucking me a

Rick:

tick, tick. Not tick tock tick. Tock is not like they're okay. They're not that good

Genesis:

hotkeys or fire.

Rick:

They're not. They are trash. Dude, I'm not taking advice, food wise from someone who likes Gouda cheese.

Genesis:

Gouda sounds like

Rick:

it sounds like what you that's the noise you make when you bond. In it,

Sage:

have you tried it?

Rick:

I'm almost positive. I have. It's not good.

Genesis:

I have some habanero honey Gouda in my fridge right now.

Sage:

I mean, Bri is better, but in unranked Gouda,

Genesis:

but Bri is different bread but I don't know if I think Gouda is better for crackers.

Sage:

We're sure we're not tax bracket

Genesis:

for us on Patreon as cargo and caviar and Bri that's funny scones for Rick because you know

Rick:

oh my goodness. I'm not calling cookie school. Right. Now it's not as a callback from the last episode. Yeah,

Sage:

sounds good, right? No, Hannibal birth

Genesis:

record anything you want to promote from pedals out? I don't know some toxic masculinity. Your topic you wanted to talk about this?

Rick:

I did. That was when I had a good internet connection though.

Sage:

Back in 1860

Rick:

Oh my goodness. This guy this guy No You know I didn't really want to bring up much I really just wanted to talk about this to like

Sage:

it legit sounds like you're getting auto tuned right now. Just Say bye. Bye niggas.

Genesis:

Bye I don't know what to do after that. Tune in next week to question the views and opinions expressed are solely our own and not of the corporations we work for. Other than finance.

Rick:

You said something about petitioning for the removal.

Sage:

This is the Haven exchange.

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